St. Gregory's Dialogues.

The Fourth Book

PL77.317C-319C

[0318^C]

Chapter One; how carnal men give the less credit to those things which be eternal and spiritual; because they know not by experience, what they hear others to speak of.

 ΚΕΦΑΛ. Α′. Ὅτι ἀναγκαιότερα τῶν σαρκικῶν πνευματικά.

GREGORY: After that the first Parent of mankind was banished from the joys of Paradise,

^[0317C] GREGORIUS. Postquam de paradisi gaudiis, culpa exigente, expulsus est primus humani generis parens,

ΓΡΗΓΟΡΙΟΣ. Μετὰ τὴν ἐν τῷ παραδείσῳ χαρὰν, τοῦ πταίσματος τῆς παρακοῆς ποιήσαντος, ὁ προπάτωρ τοῦ ἀνθρωπίνου γένους ἐκεῖθεν ἐξεβλήθη,

for his sin he fell into the blindness and banishment, which to this very day we do all endure:

in hujus caecitatis atque exsilii quam patimur venit aerumnam,

καὶ ἐν τῇ ἐξορίᾳ τῆς τυφλώσεως ταύτης καὶ μερίμνης, ἣν ὑπομένομεν, ἦλθεν.

for sinning led him outside of himself, so he was no longer able to contemplate the joys of that heavenly homeland, which he had previously beheld

quia peccando extra semetipsum fusus, jam illa coelestis patriae gaudia, quae prius contemplabatur, videre non potuit.

Ἁμαρτήσας γὰρ, καὶ ἔξω ἑαυτοῦ ἐξενεχθεὶς, οὐκέτι λοιπὸν θεάσασθαι ἠδύνατο τὴν χαρὰν ἐκείνην τῆς οὐρανίου πατρίδος, ἣν πρότερον ἑώρα.

for during the time of his residence in Paradise, he usually heard God talking with him, and by purity of heart and heavenly vision, was present with the quires of the blessed Angels.

In paradiso quippe assueverat homo verbis Dei perfrui, beatorum angelorum spiritibus cordis munditia et celsitudine visionis interesse;

Ἐν γὰρ τῷ παραδείσῳ ὁ ἄνθρωπος ὑπάρχων, τοῖς τοῦ Θεοῦ λόγοις ἀκούειν εἰώθει, καὶ ἐν τῇ τῶν μακαρίων ἀγγέλων καταστάσει, καθαρότητι καρδίας, καὶ ὑψώματι θεωρίας ἔνδον ὑπῆρχε.

But after his fall he lost that light of soul, which before abundantly he enjoyed.

sed postquam huc cecidit, ab illo quo implebatur mentis lumine recessit (Hom. 32).

Μετὰ δὲ τὸ ἐνταῦθα ἐκπεσεῖν αὐτὸν τοῦ λογισμοῦ ἐκείνου, οὗπερ φωτὸς ἐπληροῦτο ἀπέστη,

[?? HOMILY 32]

From whom we being by carnal propagation derived, that live now in this dark ignorance of banishment, do hear indeed of an heavenly country, and how it is inhabited by the Angels of God; and that the souls of just and perfect men do there keep them company. But yet such as be carnal, because they can not by experience know those invisible creatures, doubt whether there be any such, seeing with their corporal eyes they cannot behold them: from which doubt our first Parent was altogether free: for although he was exiled from the joys of Paradise, yet did he still keep in memory what he had lost, because he had before beheld the same: but these men can not by any means call to mind such things as they hear others speak of, because they never had of them any former experience as our first father Adam had.

Ex cujus videlicet carne nos in hujus exsilii caecitate nati, audivimus quidem coelestem esse patriam, audivimus ^[0317D] ejus cives angelos Dei, audivimus eorumdem angelorum socios spiritus justorum et perfectorum. Sed carnales quique, quia illa invisibilia scire non valent per experimentum, dubitant utrumne sit quod corporalibus oculis non vident. Quae nimirum ^[0320A] dubietas in primo parente nostro esse non potuit, quia exclusus a paradisi gaudiis, hoc quod amiserat, quia viderat recolebat. Hi autem sentire vel recolere audita non possunt, quia eorum nullum, sicut ille, saltem de praeterito, experimentum tenent.

ὅθεν ἐκ τῆς ἐκείνου σαρκὸς ^[0318D] ἡμεῖς ἐν ταύτῃ τῆς ἐξορίας τυφλώσει γενηθέντες, πατρίδα μὲν οὐράνιον ὑπάρχειν ἀκούομεν, καὶ τοὺς ταύτης πολίτας ἀγγέλους· ἀκούομεν κοινωνοὺς τῶν αὐτῶν μακαρίων ἀγγέλων, πνεύματα δικαίων τετελειωμένων. Σαρκικοὶ δέ τινες τὰ ἀθεώρητα ἐκεῖνα γινώσκειν μὴ δυνάμενοι, ^[0319A] καὶ διὰ τῆς ἀπειρίας εἰς δειλίαν καταπίπτοντες, ἐν δυσπιστίᾳ εἰσί. μὴ νομίζοντες ὑπάρχειν ἐκεῖνα, ἅπερ τοῖς σωματικοῖς ὀφθαλμοῖς θεωρῆσαι οὐ δύνανται. Αὕτη δὲ ἡ δειλία ἐν τῳ προπάτορι ἡμῶν οὐχ ὑπῆρχε. Κἂν εἰ γὰρ ἐξεβλήθη ἐκ τῆς τοῦ παραδείσου χαρᾶς, ἀλλ᾽ οὖν ὅμως ὑπεμιμνήσκετο, ὅπερ ἦν θεασάμενος, εἰ καὶ ἀποβαλόμενος ἦν τοῦτο. Οὗτοι δὲ νοῆσαι, ἢ ἀναμνησθῆναι τὰ ἀκουσθέντα οὐ δύνανται, διὰ τὸ μηδὲ μίαν πείραν βεβαίως κρατεῖν αὐτοὺς, καθὼς ἐκεῖνος, ἐκ τῶν παρελθόντων.

For it is in this case as if a woman big with child should be put in prison, and be there delivered of a son, which never went forth, but were there continually brought up: for if his mother should tell him of the sun, moon, stars, mountains: and speak of the fields, the flying of birds, and running of horses; her child, that had continually been brought up in the prison, and acquainted with nothing else but black darkness, might well hear what she said, but with a doubt whether it were true or no, because experience taught him not any such thing.

Ac si enim praegnans mulier mittatur in carcerem, ibique pariat puerum, qui natus puer in carcere nutriatur et crescat; cui si fortasse mater quae hunc genuit, solem, lunam, stellas, montes et campos, volantes aves, currentes equos nominet, ille vero qui est in carcere natus et nutritus nihil aliud quam tenebras carceris sciat, et haec quidem esse audiat, sed quia ea per experimentum non novit, veraciter esse diffidat;

Ὥσπερ γὰρ ἔγκυος γυνὴ, ἐν φυλακῇ βληθεῖσα, ἐκεῖσε τὸ παιδίον γεννήσει. Τὸ δὲ γενηθὲν παιδίον ἐν αὐτῇ τῇ φυλακῇ ἀνατραφῇ καὶ αὐξήσει. Ἡ δὲ τοῦτο τεκοῦσα μήτηρ πολλάκις αὐτῷ τὸν ἥλιον καὶ τὴν σελήνην καὶ τοὺς ἀστέρας, ὄρη καὶ πεδιάδας, πετεινὰ πετόμενα, καὶ ἵππους τρέχοντας ὀνομάσει, ἐκεῖνος δὲ ἐν τῇ φυλακῇ γεννηθεὶς ^[0319B] καὶ ἀνατραφεὶς, οὐδὲν ἕτερον εἰ μὴ τὸ τῆς φυλακῆς σκότος γινώσκει. Καὶ ταῦτα μὲν ὑπάρχειν ἀκούει, διὰ δὲ τὸ ἐν πείρᾳ αὐτὰ μὴ γινώσκειν, ἀληθῆ αὐτὰ εἶναι ἀπιστήσει.

Even so, men that are born in this dark world, the place of their banishment, do hear that there be wonderful, strange, and invisible things: but because they are not acquainted with any else but terrestrial creatures, which only be visible, they doubt whether there be any such invisible things as are reported of, or no: for which cause the Creator himself of all things both visible and invisible, and the only begotten Son of the eternal Father, came into this world, for the redemption of mankind: and sent the holy Ghost unto our hearts, that quickened by him and his grace, we should believe those things which as yet by sense or experience we cannot possibly understand:

ita in hac exsilii sui caecitate nati homines, dum esse summa et invisibilia audiunt, diffidunt an vera ^[0320B] sint, quia sola haec infima in quibus nati sunt visibilia noverunt. Unde factum est ut ipse invisibilium et visibilium Creator ad humani generis redemptionem Unigenitus Patris veniret, et sanctum Spiritum ad corda nostra mitteret, quatenus per eum vivificati crederemus, quae adhuc scire per experimentum non possumus.

Οὕτως ἐν ταύτῃ τῇ τῆς ἐξορίας αὑτῶν τυφλώσει γεννηθέντες οἱ ἄνθρωποι, ὑψηλὰ καὶ ἀθέατα ἀκούοντες ὑπάρχειν, ταῦτα δυσπιστοῦσιν εἰ ἐπ᾽ ἀληθείας εἰσί. Μόνα γὰρ ταῦτα γινώσκουσι τὰ οἰκτρὰ καὶ ὁρώμενα, ἐν οἷς ἐγεννήθησαν. Ὅθεν λοιπὸν γέγονεν ἵνα αὐτὸς ὁ τῶν ἀοράτων καὶ ὁρωμένων κτίστης, ὁ μονογενὴς τοῦ Πατρὸς Υἱὸς εἰς τὴν τοῦ ἀνθρωπίνου γένους λύτρωσιν ἔλθῃ, καὶ τὸ πνεῦμα αὑτοῦ τὸ ἅγιον ἐν ταῖς καρδίαις ἡμῶν εἰσοικίσῃ, ὅπως δι᾽ αὐτοῦ ζωοποιηθέντες, πιστεύσωμεν, περὶ ὧν ἀκμὴν διὰ πείρας ἐν γνώσει γενέσθαι οὐ δυνάμεθα. Ὅσοι οὖν τὸ πνεῦμα τοῦτο τῆς κληρονομίας ἡμῶν ἐνέχυρον ἐλάβομεν, περὶ τῆς τῶν ἀοράτων ζωῆς οὐ διστάζομεν.

and therefore so many of us as have received this spirit, the heavenly pledge of our inheritance, make no doubt of God's invisible and immortal creatures: and whosoever as yet is not settled in this belief, out of all question, he ought of reason to give credit to the words of them that be more learned and holy, and believe them that, through the grace of God's holy Spirit, have experience of those things that be invisible: for he were a very foolish child, that thought his mother lied, when she spake of light in other places, because himself, where he was, beheld nothing else but the darkness of the prison.

Quotquot ergo hunc spiritum haereditatis nostrae pignus accepimus (Ephes. I, 14), de vita invisibilium non dubitamus. Quisquis autem in hac credulitate adhuc solidus non est, debet procul dubio majorum dictis fidem praebere, eisque jam per Spiritum sanctum invisibilium experimentum habentibus credere, quia et stultus est puer si matrem ideo aestimet de luce mentiri, quia ipse nihil aliud quam tenebras carceris agnovit.

Ὅστις δὲ ἀκμὴν ἐν τῇ πληροφορίᾳ ταύτῃ ἑδραιωμένος οὐκ ἔστιν, ὀφείλει ἑαυτὸν ἄνευ δισταγμοῦ τοῖς τῶν τελείων ἀνδρῶν λόγοις πρὸς πίστιν ἐπιδοῦναι, τοῖς ἤδη λοιπὸν διὰ τοῦ ἁγίου πνεύματος τῶν ἀοράτων τὴν πεῖραν ἔχουσι, καὶ αὐτοῖς πιστεῦσαι. Μάταιος γὰρ λοιπόν ἐστιν ἐκεῖνος ὁ παῖς, ἐὰν διὰ τοῦτο περὶ τοῦ φωτὸς νομίζει τὴν ἑαυτοῦ μητέρα ψεύδεσθαι, διὰ τὸ ἐκεῖνον μηδὲν ἕτερον γινώσκειν, εἰ μὴ τὸ τῆς φυλακῆς σκότος.

PETER. What you say pleases me greatly: yet he who believeth not that there be any invisible things, out of question in mine opinion is an infidel: and he that is an infidel, in that thing whereof he doubteth seeketh not for faith, but for reason.

^[0320C] PETR. Placet valde quod dicis. Sed qui esse invisibilia non credit, profecto infidelis est; qui vero infidelis est, in eo quod dubitat, fidem non quaerit, sed rationem.

^[0319C] ΠΕΤΡ. Ἀρέσκει σφόδρα ὃ λέγεις. Ὁ δὲ τὰ ἀόρατα μὴ πιστεύων εἶναι ἀσφαλῶς, ὅτι ἄπιστός ἐστιν. Ὅστις δὲ ἄπιστος ὑπάρχει, ἐν τῷ πράγματι ὅπερ διστάζει, οὐ ζητεῖ πίστιν, ἀλλὰ πληροφορίαν.